Why modern people still need God, Myths and Magic... Caleb Woodbridge and Damien Walter

Philip Pullman once described C.S. Lewis's Narnia stories as a “filthy lie.” But is that fair? And what does the clash between these two literary giants reveal about faith, imagination, morality and meaning? In this episode of Unbelievable, host John Nelson is joined by Christian writer and podcaster Caleb Woodbridge and science-fiction author, critic and YouTuber Damien Walter for a wide-ranging discussion on the theology of fiction, the enduring appeal of myth, and whether stories can point us towards truth. The conversation explores Pullman's long-standing criticisms of Lewis, including the controversial "problem of Susan" in The Last Battle, Lewis's portrayal of innocence, authority and judgment, and whether Narnia promotes a harmful vision of Christianity. Along the way, they discuss Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy, liberal humanism, secular spirituality, science fiction, Star Wars, Doctor Who, the role of imagination, and the search for meaning in an age of disenchantment. Can myths reveal something true about reality? Is Christianity simply one mythology among many, or what Lewis called a "true myth"? And why do both believers and sceptics continue to find themselves drawn to stories that point beyond the material world? Whether you're a fan of Narnia, His Dark Materials, fantasy, science fiction, theology or philosophy, this conversation offers a thoughtful exploration of some of the deepest questions raised by fiction. Guests: • Caleb Woodbridge – writer, speaker and author of the Bigger on the Inside Substack, exploring the intersections of story, faith and imagination. • Damian Walter – science fiction author, critic and host of the Science Fiction YouTube channel, exploring the stories and ideas shaping our culture. 00:00 – Is Narnia a “filthy lie”? 01:00 – Meet Damien Walter: author of sci-fi narratives 03:16 – Meet Caleb Woodbridge: Growing up with C.S. Lewis and Philip Pullman 05:38 – Is Pullman secretly shaped by Christianity? 08:11 – Liberal humanism, secularism and Jesus 17:22 – Pullman’s attack on Narnia 18:03 – The “problem of Susan” 21:14 – Why Pullman keeps returning to Lewis 24:18 – Pullman’s longing for connection after God 26:39 – Star Wars, Jedi and the search for modern myth 30:24 – Lewis: are we made for another world? 37:52 – Pullman, the fall and rebellion 40:51 – Should we side with Lucifer? 45:11 – Aslan, sacrifice and moral authority 51:23 – Does The Magician’s Nephew give children a harmful message? 58:23 – Science fiction, disenchantment and “the cold equations” 1:06:08 – Heaven, new creation and the Republic of Heaven 1:15:34 – Can we find a 21st-century mythos? Subscribe & Support 👉 Support thought-provoking conversations and help keep the show going at www.premierunbelievable.com/geolink/donate💡 🎧 Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast a www.premier.plus/unbelievable 🎙️ 🔗 Get bonus content, updates, fascinating articles, and early access to new episodes - absolutely free! Join now at www.premierunbelievable.com 📢 Follow us Instagram: https://instagram.com/premierunbelievable Facebook: https://facebook.com/premierunbelievable Tik Tok: https://tiktok.com/@premier.unbelievable X: https://x.com/UnbelievableFE