Do we have a soul - or are we just bodies and brains? Harry Amos vs Dr Claire Gilbert

In this live edition of Unbelievable?, Andy Kind hosts a fascinating conversation on the nature of the soul and spiritual experience. Philosopher Harry Amos, a former Christian turned humanist, challenges whether the soul exists at all, pointing to science, consciousness studies, and the limits of dualism. Meanwhile, Dr. Claire Gilbert, writer and ethicist, shares her profound personal journey through faith, ecology, and cancer, drawing inspiration from Julian of Norwich and the deep mysteries of spirit, love, and human worth. 0:00 – Opening & welcome 0:12 – Today’s topic: the soul & spiritual experience; guests introduced 0:32 – Harry’s story: from evangelical Christian to humanist 3:05 – Claire’s story: Church of England, Julian of Norwich & theology 5:05 – Medical ethics, grief & the limits of “pure reason” 6:23 – Cancer diagnosis: learning to face suffering with Julian of Norwich 7:56 – Writing from the heart: telling Julian’s story 8:47 – Why the Church’s “depth” matters for a thirsty world 9:53 – What is a soul? Defining terms & dualism 10:56 – Who has the burden of proof? Does the soul explain anything? 13:36 – Vitalism analogy; are we re-running an old mistake? 14:55 – “Weird physics” ≠ the supernatural: relativity, QM, organoids playing Pong 16:44 – Qualia & colour: what fMRI reveals about experience 17:51 – Claire’s critique of Enlightenment control & either/or thinking 19:37 – Beyond mind/body splits: interconnection, humility, surrender 22:49 – “Soul mentoring”: caring for the inner life of public servants 24:01 – Do humans have unique worth? Empathy, value & meaning 28:14 – “I care, therefore I am”: head vs heart 29:28 – Argument or art? Why some realities are experienced, not proved 30:01 – Do animals have souls? Are we asking the wrong question? 32:49 – Hope, love & the non-rational that helps us live 33:49 – Sentience vs “soul”; anthropomorphism (Castaway’s “Wilson”) 35:45 – Q&A starts 35:52 – Q1: What happens when you die? (Harry) 37:11 – Q1: What happens when you die? (Claire) 39:01 – Q2: Will your views on the afterlife change? 41:17 – Q3: How do you explain spiritual experiences? 43:00 – Music vs sheet music: an analogy for mystical experience 43:29 – Silence, contemplation & presence 44:53 – Closing & thanks From neuroscience and quantum mechanics to prayer, mortality, and whether dogs have souls (!), this discussion wrestles with some of the most profound questions humans can ask: Is the soul real, or just a poetic metaphor? What happens when we die? Are spiritual experiences evidence of something beyond matter? Do concepts like love, hope, and value point us to a reality science alone can’t explain? What happens after we die? 👉 Support thought-provoking conversations and help keep the show going at www.premierunbelievable.com/geolink/donate💡 🎧 Never miss an episode! Subscribe to the Unbelievable? podcast a  www.premier.plus/unbelievable 🎙️ 🔗 Get bonus content, updates, fascinating articles, and early access to new episodes - absolutely free! Join now at www.premierunbelievable.com 📢   Social Links: Twitter: https://twitter.com/unbelievablefe Facebook: / https://facebook.com/premierunbelievable Instagram: / https://instagram.com/premierunbelievable Tik Tok: / https://tiktok.com/@premier.unbelievable